forum.cimbom.org

Leo Bacica wrote:The higher the expectation, the bigger the disappointment. Optimism is good, but is it worth it?

Ohh no

You got us all wrong
You don't get many believers here
We are bunch of old timer pessimists that all we do is moan about our team

Crazy old bunch
But if you wanna get them started
Just write

SARIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Then you see whats happening

KIRMIZIIIIIIIII

KIRMIZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Leo Bacica wrote:

Ozan Ersoy wrote: History is on our side.

This is also true. I am a great fan of Turkish history, culture and civlization. Nevertheless, in times of need, we've always managed to outdo you. 1878, if you're talking political history, 1989 for the football one.

Around 1878, everyone outdid us. All of Balkans, Middle East and North Africa. All you needed were bigger balls than average to stand up against a state that had already been in decline for about 100 years and could not catch up with Western renaissance and the industrial revolution.The sick man of the world, remember? By no means, I am belittling Romanian independence from the Turkish rule, it took guts, lots of blood. I am just saying it is not as uncommon as you might be thinking.

And one must add Turkish tolerance allowed many cultures to survive even flourish although they were under the empire's rule. If Ottoman policy was much like the English imperialists or the Spanish Conquistadors from the start, half of Europe would have been speaking Turkish and/or have converted into Islam.

For some reason, I am thinking even you are caught up in Becali's out-of-football context, and putting all of this in a different perspective. You will not hear any one of us speak about this match in any other way. When I said history is on our side, I meant Galatasaray's prelim track record.

And in 1989...

From a lot of Galatasaray fans' perspective, Steaua did not really deserve the win and that showed in the finals against Milan. When it was 2-0, our star Tanju scored a goal which would have been a very crucial away goal. But the referee disallowed it due to an offside. The linesman did not raise the flag and during the replay we all saw it was nowhere near an offside. Then the referee showed yellow cards to both Tanju and Ugur Tutuneker for questioning his call and that made them unavailable for the second leg. From 2-1, to 2-0 and losing your 2 best players in the same minute was a bummer and it took the wind out of our sails and we never recomposed again.

Here is the kicker though... Many years later when Romania's dark age dictator Nicolae Ceausescu got overthrown and executed, an English secret agent came out and wrote articles about the dictator's accomplishments. One paragraph mentioned how he bribed the referee of a European Champions Cup match against a Turkish team. I cannot find that article on the Net but I vividly remember reading it on an English newspaper.

Oh well... Maybe this time Steaua will lose because of a referee mistake.. I guess I would say it would only be just.

Ozan Ersoy

Ok, now you're getting too much head over heels. My historical references were dued rather to some other personal interests outside football than the actual game between our teams. Perhaps their place would be on a message board with a history focus. Sorry it didn't come out right. Although... seeing your national team at the Euros I couldn't help but draw a parallel between the bravery, the will and the force to eventually come out on top of your players and what I knew about the Ottoman Empire military history. Being right there, just seemed sort of right here. Anywayz... don't sweat it.

I make a point in not being caught up in any of Becali's opinions. 'cause they're always crap. And when he does say somethingn decent... that's just coincidence!

That SARI/KIRMIZI staff is fun, though no idea what it means.

And for the latter part of Ozan's message... that is the type of argument I hate being involved in... History is not made of "what if"-s, and that's a wasteful way to do it.

I'll just say that complaining over refereeing issues doesn't look too right when you were down by four goals. (aside for the famous Piturca neck-goal that was cancelled with no reason - that became a great story here ).

But whatever it was, it was 20 years ago. Although with the same outcome, tomorrow has an infinite higher importance.

EN BÜYÜK...

(and, Leo, this Sari/Kirmizi stuff is just a reminder, who the greatest is, and what their colors are (as a response to your taunts!))

CIMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM (aka GALATASARAY)

Michael Skibbe: "Oyuncular Bu Maçı İple Çekiyor"


Galatasaray Profesyonel Futbol A Takımı Teknik Direktörü Michael Skibbe, yarın Steaua Bükreş ile yapacağımız Şampiyonlar Ligi 3. Ön Eleme ilk maçı öncesi basın mensuplarının sorularını yanıtladı.

Ali Sami Yen'deki ilk maçta yenilmeyerek turu Bükreş'te geçeceğimizi söyleyen Skibbe, ilk resmi maçımıza hazır olduğumuzu vurgularken şunları söyledi: "Belki yarın ideal bir kadro ile oynayamayacağız. Linderoth, Kewell ve Ümit Karan gibi oyuncular yok. Yine de iyi hazırlandık. Yarın sahada yer alacak tüm oyuncularımın ellerinden geleni yapacaklarından eminim. Hazırlık maçlarında gol sorunumuz olduğu doğru. Geçtiğimiz hafta antrenmanlarda oyuncularım gole çok istekliydi. Ben haftalar önce Hakan Şükür'ün yerine bir golcü istediğimi söylemiştim. Ancak bu aşamada bunu dert edecek durumda değiliz. Öyle ümit ediyorum ki yarın akşam sahaya çıkacak takım turu geçmek için yeterli olacaktır".

Skibbe, rakibimizi izlediklerini ifade ederken sözlerini şöyle sürdürdü: "İyi bir savunmaları var. Aynı şekilde iyi hücum oyuncuları da var. Kolay bir maç olmayacak. Hazırlık maçlarında gol atamamamız önemli değil. Hazırlık maçları bu tür maçlar için gösterge olamaz. Hazırlık maçlarında kazansanız da kaybetseniz de bir şey olmaz. Önemli olan takımı hazırlamaktır. Hazırlık dönemine en başından beri katılan oyuncularımız yorucu bir dönem geçirdiler. Bütün oyuncular bu maçı iple çekiyor. Kalede Aykut oynayacak. Çok iyi bir hazırlık dönemi geçirdi. Kendisine yüzde 100 güveniyorum. De Sanctis takıma geç katıldı. Antrenman eksiği var. Orkun ise sakat, bu yüzden kaleyi Aykut koruyacak".

Galatasaray taraftarının hayatını takıma adadığından söz eden Michael Skibbe, "Bu yüzden onların güvenine layık olmaya çalışacağız. Onlara bu sezon iyi haberler vermek istiyoruz. Şu anki takımımız turu geçecek kaliteye sahip. Mümkün olduğunca uluslararası maç yaparak, uluslararası alanda tecrübe kazanmış bir takım olmayı hedefliyoruz. Burada yenilmeyip, Bükreş'te turu geçeceğimize inanıyorum. Ondan sonra Galatasaray'la eşleşen takımlar mutlu olmayacak. Çünkü gün geçtikçe daha iyi bir takım olacağız" diye konuştu.

Galatasaray Spor Kulübü Yönetim Kurulu'nun da izlediği Ali Sami Yen Stadı'nda yapılan son idmana, ayak bileğindeki sakatlığı süren Fernando Meira katılmadı.

Kaynak: Galatasaray.org

demmekki...

------------------------------Aykut----------------------------

Sabri(Baris)-----------Meira(emre)----Servert---------Balta

------------------Mehmet---------Baris(ayhan)--------------

Sas-----------------------Lincoln----------------------Arda----

---------------------Nonda-------------------------------------

yarinki 11. Ben sahsen Ayhan'in ortasahada, sabrininde sagda oynamasindan yanayim.

Kaleyi Aykut koriyacakmis, De Santis, yerine, cok adil bir secim. Ayrica Maceradan uzak eldekilerle cikartilabilicek en iyi kadro...

Kaleci secimi konusunda Skibbe'ye ovguleri bekliyorum...

Leo Bacica wrote:History is not made of "what if"-s, and that's a wasteful way to do it.

Well, if this is how you feel, you should follow your own counsel and not worry about whether or not Galatasaray could have won the UEFA Cup without Hagi. We had him and we won, do not worry about the "what ifs" , it is wasteful

Sari means yellow, kirmizi means red, our team colors, obviously.

As for the tie, may the better team win. Arda and Lincoln playing together makes me hopeful. You should enjoy watching Arda, he is one of the most exciting players to watch not only on Galatasaay but also in the entire European scene nowadays.

Ali

Ali Gursel wrote:

Leo Bacica wrote:History is not made of "what if"-s, and that's a wasteful way to do it.

Well, if this is how you feel, you should follow your own counsel and not worry about whether or not Galatasaray could have won the UEFA Cup without Hagi. We had him and we won, do not worry about the "what ifs" , it is wasteful

Sari means yellow, kirmizi means red, our team colors, obviously.

As for the tie, may the better team win. Arda and Lincoln playing together makes me hopeful.

Ali

In the game of "what-ifs" the side that won always claims they were better. But what's real is that you cannot bring back what happened and fix it. That is the harsh reality. The result can hardly be a determinant of who was better. Quick example, Chech's claim they were the better side and "if" Peter Cech had not spilled the ball to the feet of Nihat Kahveci, they would have won. Turks claim "there is no what if in football, even though he spilled, if Chech Republic were better, they should have scored more and beaten us".

I tend to agree with Cechs contrary to the general belief. That mistake cost them big time, they lost all concentration, they panicked and all of a sudden we had the upper hand. Even Peter admitted that his mistake was the sole reason why they lost. There were only 4 minutes left and had he caught that ball, it would have been all over. However, they played better and created more chances in the game. In the same token we played better all throughout the game against the Germans and our goalkeeper's typical mistake cost us the final.

Now when a referee screws up deliberately on a situation where he had no angle to see and disallows a perfectly fine goal and then pretty much takes the air off the team by carding 2 of the best players, that is direct influence on the result of the tie. In the end Steaua won. That is not to mean we did not deserve to win.

And no comment on the Cavushesku either... I bet most of the fans already know about the story and simply ignore it. And I don't blame you really. Considering the pain that man caused the Romanian people for decades, I would try to forget too.

Ozan Ersoy

Ozan Ersoy wrote:

Ali Gursel wrote:

Leo Bacica wrote:History is not made of "what if"-s, and that's a wasteful way to do it.

Well, if this is how you feel, you should follow your own counsel and not worry about whether or not Galatasaray could have won the UEFA Cup without Hagi. We had him and we won, do not worry about the "what ifs" , it is wasteful

Sari means yellow, kirmizi means red, our team colors, obviously.

As for the tie, may the better team win. Arda and Lincoln playing together makes me hopeful.

Ali

In the game of "what-ifs" the side that won always claims they were better. But what's real is that you cannot bring back what happened and fix it. That is the harsh reality. The result can hardly be a determinant of who was better. Quick example, Chech's claim they were the better side and "if" Peter Cech had not spilled the ball to the feet of Nihat Kahveci, they would have won. Turks claim "there is no what if in football, even though he spilled, if Chech Republic were better, they should have scored more and beaten us".

I tend to agree with Cechs contrary to the general belief. That mistake cost them big time, they lost all concentration, they panicked and all of a sudden we had the upper hand. Even Peter admitted that his mistake was the sole reason why they lost. There were only 4 minutes left and had he caught that ball, it would have been all over. However, they played better and created more chances in the game. In the same token we played better all throughout the game against the Germans and our goalkeeper's typical mistake cost us the final.

Now when a referee screws up deliberately on a situation where he had no angle to see and disallows a perfectly fine goal and then pretty much takes the air off the team by carding 2 of the best players, that is direct influence on the result of the tie. In the end Steaua won. That is not to mean we did not deserve to win.

And no comment on the Cavushesku either... I bet most of the fans already know about the story and simply ignore it. And I don't blame you really. Considering the pain that man caused the Romanian people for decades, I would try to forget too.

Ozan Ersoy

I made the point about the disallowed goal some pages earlier, but Leo chose not to answer there as well. While I also think that we were not up to the task of playing in the final of Cup 1 in those years (and recalling the final game as well as I do, neither was Steaua) and Steaua was probably the better team, they were not as much better as the scores would have one think. And being down 2-1 away is very very different from being down 2-0.

As for the Cech comment Ozan, I simply disagree (though I see why he would say what he said).

The story of that game is that the Czechs started better, scored and then our team started playing better (in typical Turkish fashion). Especially the second half was one of the more lopsided performances I saw in that tournament, I am not sure if the Czechs had three organized attacks in the entire second half.

Now, they scored a second goal against the run of the play when we had ten men on the pitch, with one of our center defenders injured on the sidelines and went up 2-0.

And they still could not win!

Not because Cech made a mistake. No goalie comes down with the ball 100% percent of the time, not Cech, not Buffon, not the great Yasin. It was a rainy day and Cech had to handle at least a dozen crosses, some fairly dangerous, during the game. These things are not automatic and as easy as they seem, especially in the rain with a wet and slippery ball. The pressure paid off (or took its toll, depending on whose side you were on) and the Czechs simply wilted. Yeah, if you look at that one position, it seems just like a mistake, but if you watch the game and count the times Cech had to catch the ball cross after cross, then it looks like the inevitable finally happening.

I am surprised that this story of the "goalie made a mistake and the better team lost" story has taken hold as much as it did (in Turkey it has some fans among the Terim hating FB crowd, who like to say it was all luck).

Remember what Ridvan said when we tied it at 2 with only minutes to go: we do not need to take this game to penalty kicks, we can win it in regulation he said. That was not because he thought the Czechs were going to be demoralized. The Czechs had started looking bad long before Cech's mistake, Ridvan saw that they were crumbling.

Similarly we could not beat Germany even though we played "the better game". It was Germany and not the Czech Republic, it takes more pressure than what we could do against them to beat Germany. And our goalie made his usual mistake because enough balls came his way for him to make his mistake.

So in my opinion the better team won in both the Czech Republic and the Germany games we played.

That being said goalie mistakes are easier understood than refs disallowing legal goals. It is not that the ref stole our final from us, he stole a much more enjoyable 180 minutes from all footbal fans (well, maybe except Steaua fans who care more about advancing than good footbal).

Ali

Leo Bacica wrote: But whatever it was, it was 20 years ago. Although with the same outcome, tomorrow has an infinite higher importance.
_________________
1988/89 Champion's Cup:
Steaua - Galatasaray 4-0
Galatasaray - Steaua 1-1

Hi Leo,

Welcome to the forum. It is nice to have someone representing the other side in a friendly discussion.

As Turks, we tend to support underdogs and I still remember cheering up for Steau when Dukadam cleared all Barcelona penalty kicks in your 1986 Eurpean Champion's Club Cup trophy. Hagi has a very special place in Galatasaray's history and as his old club, I feel Steau sympathy although almost all Cimbom fans, including myself, still believe the first leg match result in that 1989 semifinal was a gift to Steau by referee.

Other forum members already discussed different aspects of the tomorrow's game. I barely watch Turkish soccer recently and try to read the forum to keep myself up to date about the team. Since you emphasize on 20 yar-old resuls in your signature, I wanted to remind you our team's qualifying round history since 1993/1994;

1993-94
Galatasaray 2–1 Cork City
Cork City 0-1 Galatasaray
Manchester United 3-3 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 0-0Manchester United
1994-95
Avenir Beggen 1-5 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 4–0 Avenir Beggen
1997-98
Sion 1–4 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 4-1 Sion
1998-99
Galatasaray 2-1 Grasshoppers
Grasshopers 2-3 Galatasaray
1999-00
Rapid Wien 0-3 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 1-0 Rapid Wien
2000-01
Saint Gallen 1-2 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 2-2 Saint Gallen
2001-02
Galatasaray 2-0 Vllaznia İşkodra
Vllaznia İşkodra 1-4 Galatasaray
Galatasaray 2-1 Levski Sofya
Levski Sofya 1-1 Galatasaray
2003-04
Galatasaray 3-0 CSKA Sofya
CSKA Sofya 0-3 Galatasaray
2006-07
Galatasaray 5-2 Mlada Boleslav
Mlada Boleslav 1-1 Galatasaray

Lets see if Steau is going to be able to ruin our "defeatless" CL qualifying round history. I prefer an advance to the group stages even if its going to cost a defeat in a 2 leg competition.

Mehmet

Oh, yeah, sure, Steaua is the devil, the care-nothing-but-the result sons of bitches. Ok, now, you're getting towards the attitude I expected. And, let me guess... the Turks did not care about the result, they just wanted good football, right? Yeah, yeah, I'm sure about that.

Match by match:

The 1989 double: I was only 8 back then and I don't remember it very well. I don't remember at all your cancelled goal, but I do remember clearly Piturca's cancelled goal. The keeper tried to clear the ball, our forward pressed and the keeper sent the ball right in the back of his neck - jumping into the net. It was not a dead ball, Piturca was outside the box, so the goal was perfectly legal, regardless stupid. Cancelled with absolutely no reason.
Also, about the 1-1 draw in Istanbul, I only remember a manner of refereeing so outrageous that the referees needed police protection after the game, just to get rid of our players.

None of you guys seem to remember any of these... oh, well, selective memory is a wonderful thing, wouldn't you say?


The 2000 UEFA Cup: No doubt you deserved it. You had a great team, with some great players. I remember very well how Emre, Hakan Sukur, Arif, Hasan Sas or Bulent Akim shone in that alignment of stars. And I absolutely loved to see Arsenal defetead (Manchester United being my second love in football). All I said was, Hagi was the absolute star of that team, and he had the unique talent of dragging a team after him. No "what if" in that, it's a fact.

The Euros: Why do you hang so much on that game with the Cechs? Did you forget the Swiss goal with the ball on its way out, being stopped in front of the goal by a strange puddle? Or the huge amount of injuries for the game against Germany?
And one of the most amazing proofs of mental strength in football: the Croatia game, with the 122nd minute equaliser, the sort of magic that no trophy in the world is able to reward.

Turkey vs. Russia would have been the dream final, and you would've definetly deserved it.

Things are exactly how they should be, in the best of the possible worlds.